18 Comments
User's avatar
Céline sans racines's avatar

This was helpful as I’ve been arguing with my gf about (not) watching this show. She finds it gritty and probative; I find it boring when not repulsive. We can agree it’s well produced, but what am I missing? What could be worse than conniving rich tourists whingeing poolside about how empty they feel. I’d rather sit alone in a dive bar, writing dissident poetry and sipping my DIPA; feeling absolutely fulfilled and morally superior to everyone except the barmaid.

Expand full comment
Stefan Kelly's avatar

Haha I aim to help all readers in arguments with their partners

Expand full comment
Céline sans racines's avatar

Even if I’m right about the show, which clearly I am, she still makes me watch it with her lol. But at least I can feel morally superior to her as well and maybe that’s the point of the show after all: feeling better than people in it and all the people who like it.

Expand full comment
Stefan Kelly's avatar

Yes I will accept the "What is 'What is the White Lotus for' for" take

Expand full comment
Nick Burdick's avatar

I’m willing to buy your argument, because it jives with what I already believe.

Expand full comment
Victor Ataraxia's avatar

TV will always be about entertainment first and foremost, and I think you're right to essentially say the side conversations about cultural meaning are blather serving the function of press releases for each episode of what is essentially a soap opera.

Great point about how this faux-conversation serves to entrench the status quo. What's wrong with the world? Someone else somewhere else! If there's meaningful commentary here I don't see it either, and I'm inclined to watch this as pure entertainment and not for any issues-related reasons, as I watched Succession.

TV can mean something, but if it's not fun on some level it's not good TV, so it's limited in what it can ask of an audience. Movies ask more of an audience, books more than movies.

Expand full comment
Stefan Kelly's avatar

I very rarely watch movies. I guess The Menu is somewhat comparable? That was fun to watch

Expand full comment
Victor Ataraxia's avatar

Yeah good comparison. Fairly cliche depiction of rich people being bad in a non-complex way. A funny take on fine dining and the auteur chef mentality as well.

Expand full comment
Tam's avatar

It's weird - I watch White Lotus as a study in souls. I don't feel generally superior to the characters, and I like watching them in their moral struggles. Something is satisfying/edifying to me about seeing the moment in which the soul is lost, and how it happens - or in some cases how the loss is avoided. But other people don't seem to watch it in this way.

Expand full comment
Guy Dudebro's avatar

The poor wage earner hotel staff are just as awful as the rich people guests. I don’t really see the show as being about just making fun of rich westerners.

Expand full comment
Stefan Kelly's avatar

I ain't watching the gaitok show spinoff

Expand full comment
Roger Boyd's avatar

Adolescence is an absolutely fantastically produced show pushing the utter BS of adolescent "incels" attacking young women because they are propagandized by the manosphere, with no actual support in real social science research. This is exactly the political mirror image of the utter BS pushed by the manosphere. In this way I find it morally repugnant, as against just the cool schadenfreude of White Lotus. The British PM's response is not surprising to me, nothing from him surprises me. Pushing an utterly falsified social crisis.

Young men have real problems that can be addressed, with the effects of the manosphere being way down the list. It reminds me of the "violent games produce violent men" trope which has now been utterly debunked by actual social science research.

In the UK the vast majority of teenage victims of crime are teenage boys. The greatest danger for any teenage girls are the non-biological-father adult males around them.

Expand full comment
Jon M's avatar

Only the elites in Protestant countries seem to have this fetish for self flagellation (and criticizing the economic players but also kinda concealing how the game is played).

Notice how even South Korea has this trend in entertainment.

I don’t know that it does nothing, though, because narrative propaganda has worked to erode trust, trust in policing, institutions, the concept of meritocracy. But other than making people mad, it’s only solutions are purges of individuals, because in narrative framework, problems are a result of individual agency.

Expand full comment
Jxsh8's avatar

Glad I don't watch telly.

Expand full comment
Gregor's avatar

Re: the real life Saxons, anyone who’s been to midtown Manhattan knows the finance bro depiction is spot on

Expand full comment
D. Williams's avatar

I guess I’m one of the few who simply disliked the show. I found myself disliking almost every character and secretly hoping ALL of them would end up dead. And not just the fucked up, snotty, entitled rich guests but the surly, scheming, kiss-ass, phony staff as well. Not a sympathetic character in sight.

Expand full comment
Carl Crow's avatar

I favor Hypothesis One. Mike White created a series that, love it or hate it, once you start watching it, you can’t stop. It’s got all of the ingredients that viewers can’t resist…sex, nudity, adultery, rich people, beauty (women), smarminess, intrigue, murder, drugs, hypocrisy, happy endings (sort of)…along with great settings, castings, and dialogue. Bravo, Mr White, you deserve to be rich and famous.

Expand full comment
Carl Crow's avatar

I’m voting for Hypothesis One.

Expand full comment